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del Sol still won't start... what are we missing?


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Old 08-11-2008, 10:40 AM
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del Sol still won't start... what are we missing?

OK, so my del Sol ('93 Si) is giving me grief. This all started last summer- on really hot days it wouldn't start, but once it cooled off it would start like a champ. This spring, it just stopped starting altogether. I did my homework and found that a common problem on hondas is that the solder in the main relay starts to go bad, and on hot days when the cabin gets hot enough, the main relay connections come apart just enough to make the car not start. (And eventually the car won't start at all). So a few weeks ago I swung by my local honda dealer and bought a new main relay ($90). Threw that puppy in and ... it sounded different but still wouldn't start.

Before it was the brrrit-dit-dit-dit-dit but no turn over. Now it was more of an electrical rrrnn-rrnn-rrnnn noise. We (hubby Paul/schwanginpt and I) bought a can of carburator cleaner and tried spraying it in and cranking on it - still nothing. So we determined we now were not getting any spark. I did some more homework and found a site where someone said that the coil going bad has similar symptoms to the bad main relay. After talking to my brother who has owned and worked on many a honda, he said "just get a new dizzy, the coil is a bitch to get to". So I got a new dizzy. We slapped that on yesterday, and it did start... once... after we gave the car a hot-shot since it had been sitting a while and the battery had weakened. We let it idle for a few minutes to help charge the battery back up. I went to get in it to take it to the gas station and fill it up (it was close to E) and the car started sputtering a little and then stalled. We thought it had just run out of gas, so we put what we had in the gas can in it... still wouldn't start. Sprayed the carb. cleaner in and it started again, so I tried just driving it around the court where we live.

It drove very roughly, but i thought it was just because it was burning up the remaining carb cleaner (tach bouncing all over the place, car was kind of "bucking" as the tach would jump up to around 5k for a second, then go back down to around 2-3k). Paul thought maybe we put the spark plug wires on the dizzy in the wrong order. Then the car stalled out on me again. We tried pop-starting it but that didn't work, so we had to push it back to our house. The gas gauge went up to around 1/4 tank so we don't think it's out of gas.

So we think we're back to it being a fuel issue, since spraying the carb cleaner got it to start. No CEL, but I do remember on my CRX once it was throwing a code but the CEL wasn't on... so I am gonna find something for a jump wire and see if I am getting anything. We were in a rush yesterday to get some time-sensitive things done, so we couldn't spend a lot of time on the Sol.

Some things we are thinking about: fuel filter, fuel pressure regulator, fuel pump, maybe spark plugs & wires, more so because we have no idea how old they are... and it probably wouldn't hurt to replace them. I've been on tegger.com a lot, and it's been really helpful, but i thought maybe another del Sol owner has had a similar problem? Paul thinks that I had multiple things fail on me at once and that's why we're having such a hard time getting back to normal again. Any insight is very much appreciated!
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Old 08-11-2008, 11:41 AM
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i got to the no spark part...

get a new coil, its a common problem thats hit me twice...if thats not it try the icm
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Old 08-11-2008, 12:18 PM
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OK i'll do cliff's notes, i know it is a long post:

-del Sol wouldn't start in hot weather, now doesn't start at all
-replaced main relay, still no start
-tested for spark - no spark
-replaced dizzy, started once then stalled out after a few mins
-started when starter fluid was sprayed in while cranking, rode roughly for a few mins, then stalled again.
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Quote:
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Old 08-11-2008, 12:23 PM
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try plugging in someone elses ecu if u have one available
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Old 08-11-2008, 01:02 PM
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are you sure you didnt have spark? you might be burning out icm's from something else thats wrong. also check the fuel pump
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Old 08-11-2008, 01:05 PM
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Damn, that's frustrating. I'd replace the plugs and wires next, since that's the cheapest. If that doesn't help and it's getting spark, then I'd look at the fuel system.
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Old 08-11-2008, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy
are you sure you didnt have spark? you might be burning out icm's from something else thats wrong. also check the fuel pump
my father-in-law is a retired mechanic, he said to spray carb cleaner or another similar, highly flammable fluid into the throttle body and crank on it. that is how we tested for spark. so once we saw we weren't getting spark because the car didn't start with the carb cleaner, we replaced the dizzy since my research indicated the coil could be bad. should we use a different method to test for spark? as i said, it did start once unassisted after we replaced the dizzy, which leads us to believe the problem is fuel-delivery related. i can hear the fuel pump humming when the key is at position II, but i was thinking maybe the pressure is wrong? i know that could still mean the pump is bad, or is going bad....

i don't have another ECU to try, but www.tegger.com (really good site for diagnosing common problems) gave a pretty simple test to see if your ECU is acting up - mine seems to be fine based on that.

tomorrow i am taking my CRX for 180k service to my brother's mechanic friend, so we hope to run the del Sol situation by him and see if he has any experience with this kind of problem as well. he used to work at an Acura dealership as a mechanic, so maybe (hopefully) he's seen this before.

thanks for the input so far, everyone!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChauncyPeppertooth
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Quote:
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Old 08-12-2008, 11:53 AM
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ecu test-put the car to the second accesory, the cel should come on, and turn off. if that cel stays solid the car will not start. solid cel=bad ecu

spark-try starting the car, have someone hold a spark plug wire about a 1/2" from the valve cover, itll arc to the vc if you have spark.

are you absolutely sure the fuel pumps priming?
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Old 08-12-2008, 07:49 PM
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If it runs with starter fluid, it sounds like a fuel delivery problem. There is a test where you disconnect the return fuel line from the fuel pressure regulator, and run a hose from the FPR to a measuring cup. With the ignition off you run a jumper wire on the main relay harness (BLK/YEL to YEL/GRN), and turn the key on for 10 seconds. You measure how much fuel made it through the FPR into the cup (7.5 US oz). That shows if enough fuel is even being pumped.


I had a similar problem with an 89 civic. But my car sat for awhile and the baffles in the tank rusted out. So when I drove it, it would starve for gas. I'd take it back to my house where it was on an incline, and it would run. As soon as I drove it on level ground or pointed the nose downhill, it would die. It also would only occur with less than half a tank. That took me several weeks to figure out.

Last edited by 95_civic_gsr; 08-12-2008 at 08:30 PM. Reason: I found the test in the Helms manual.
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Old 08-12-2008, 08:40 PM
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Yep, erin check the fuel pump listen for it to engage and why the hell u pay 90buck for a relay.shit . new fuel pump costs that much.gl
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Old 08-12-2008, 08:49 PM
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Because the relay is usually the cause of the described problem.
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Old 08-12-2008, 09:12 PM
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the fuel pump is running, i can definitely hear it. it's a del sol, the fuel pump isn't that far from the driver! that was the first thing we checked for when it started doing this last year.

we talked to a honda/acura specialist today and he thinks the new dizzy is no good. he said he's seen it many many times with aftermarket dizzys where the tach jumps all around while driving. he also said the cap and rotor might be bad (we didn't replace those, just the dizzy). my brother and paul are also thinking TSP, but the guy we talked to today said that is controlled by sensors in the dizzy... so we're still on that. i think it is getting fuel, but not enough to start it. when we get it started with starter fluid, it idles fine... the trouble starts when you try to drive. been a busy week so far but i'm hoping to investigate more tomorrow.

thanks again for the input everyone... we will still be looking at the fuel system once we're sure the dizzy is OK.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChauncyPeppertooth
I've come to realize that Erin is the authority on EVERYTHING.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalHorizon
Erin is wise, and she is a woman, which automatically makes her smarter than the smartest man alive.
My Stuff For Sale
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"faith is an island in the setting sun, but proof... proof is the bottom line for everyone" ~paul simon, "proof"
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Old 08-14-2008, 09:14 AM
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well i figured it out... it was so stupid. we just had 2 of the plug wires on the dizzy switched started right up once i swapped them, drove it around the court and it felt fine. finally i can drive it again, and focus on the goodies i have for it!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChauncyPeppertooth
I've come to realize that Erin is the authority on EVERYTHING.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalHorizon
Erin is wise, and she is a woman, which automatically makes her smarter than the smartest man alive.
My Stuff For Sale
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"faith is an island in the setting sun, but proof... proof is the bottom line for everyone" ~paul simon, "proof"
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:42 PM
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That's awesome! At least it was an easy fix.
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Old 08-20-2008, 10:07 AM
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i just ran threw the exact same situation with my 93 del sol i had 2 sensors swapped thats pretty weird lol gl with the rest of the build
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