Thinking about doing a JDM F20B swap... any advice

[alejo98cx]

As it says, I think my new weapon of choice is going to be this:

Out of a 2000 JDM SIR Accord. Comes with intake, alt, dist, chrome headers.
This engine was used in the 1998-2002 Honda Accord SiR and SiR-T (manual) in non-US countries. It uses a DOHC VTEC cylinder head similar to the H22A found in the Prelude but was designed to comply with many countries\' sub-2.0 liter tax.
Specifications
• Bore × Stroke: 85.0 × 88.0 mm
• Displacement: 1997 cc
• Valve Configuration: DOHC, 16 valves, VTEC
• Compression ratio: 11.0:1
• Max power: 180-200 hp (134-149 kW) @ 7000 rpm
• Max torque: 141-144 ft•lbf (189 Nm) @ 5500 rpm

Sounds sick! any problems with this? I want a relatively easy swap (Like B series) will this be kind of easy I have basic shop training

[jdmfresh]

let me know how you get on with this project!
theres an F20B in the yard right now belonging to someone else and i contemplated putting it in my old EG but lack on info pushed me away.
are there even mounts available for this swap?

[ALlTroTTle]

is this going into a accord or civic? and i would look into getting a h22 instead of a f20.

[alejo98cx]

Its for a 98 Civic Cx. I believe you can use the same Mounts as an H22 swap

I found this: H22 Into 92-95 Civic Swap Info - CivicLand Honda Civic Forums Very helpful and I have heard many things between the H22 and F20 are compatible so it should be the same process

I need to save a little money first though and see if this engine is still avaiblable, the F20 is cheaper than the H22 which is why I am looking into it and more rare. And remember this is F20B not the lesser F20's

[ALlTroTTle]

Originally Posted by alejo98cx

Its for a 98 Civic Cx. I believe you can use the same Mounts as an H22 swap

I found this: H22 Into 92-95 Civic Swap Info - CivicLand Honda Civic Forums Very helpful and I have heard many things between the H22 and F20 are compatible so it should be the same process

I need to save a little money first though and see if this engine is still avaiblable, the F20 is cheaper than the H22 which is why I am looking into it and more rare. And remember this is F20B not the lesser F20's

the swap mayb easy, but not all parts from the h22 are compatible with the f20b.

[killakam666]

all throttle i wanna see your ride,

on a side note.
isnt a swap a swap, why do people call them JDM swaps? an engine is an engine. right?

thread starter just go H22

[SergEK]

Originally Posted by killakam666

all throttle i wanna see your ride,

on a side note.
isnt a swap a swap, why do people call them JDM swaps? an engine is an engine. right?

thread starter just go H22

Namely because JDM denotes the tune of the engine

UK spec
US spec
J spec
AUS spec

etc..

Slightly different specs due to emmissions, tax laws etc... so a "JDM" swap would denote a Japanese spec engine if using the "JDM" properly

As far as the F20B I am actually researching the swap myself and have concluded for ALL motor types like myself it might actually be the slightly better way to go.

For one, the F20B has a better rod stroke ratio...while some may just shrug this off consider the piston speeds at 9000rpm and realize it matters for all motor racers looking for rpm

Secondly its a regular sleeve material which means you can bore it for aftermarket pistons much easier...no FRM garbage to worry about

The head is an H22 head with slightly smaller (1mm smaller) intake valves. The exhaust valves are the same and as a bonus the MANUAL version of the F20B (which is the only one I would consider out of the gate) comes with Type S cams (noted for their blue color tint)

This means you get slightly more agressive cams than an H22, metal sleeves (no 800 sleeve job required) and its significantly cheaper

So for 950-1050 you get a motor thats better suited to NA applications than a standard H22 and you save yourself at least $600-800 in the process right off the bat....the 55mm main H22s go for 1600-1900 for the head/block combos....

Since the block is the same you can easily go to a larger bore if wanted...

The jumping off point becomes the size vs rev question....the F20B's dimensions lend itself towards high rev applications but wont make the torque of the larger 2.3-2.4L combos out there...but its very easy to just hone the block and drop in some high compression pistons, stronger rods and rev it higher than you would a longer stroke combo

With basic mods the motor will make over 200+whp without much drama....if you get crazy and start using K series intake manis, higher comp pistons, forged rods, $$$ header you will see alot more power....so you have quite a bit of room to grow with even the stock stuff before a serious "build"

If your goal is 200-230whp...the F20B is the obvious choice over the H22....if you ever get the itch to go bigger an F22 block, forged 101mm crank/rods/K series pistons away from some BIG torque numbers

The hardest part is making sure you get the MANUAL F20B....to be sure make sure the engine comes with a FLYWHEEL ....they are slim pickings but the MANUAL version is the one you want

Other than that its a straightforward swap....QSD kit + B series mounts (probably want a stiff HAsport kit) + B series axles (might want slightly stronger axles), linkage (B series) etc...very easy....youll probably want an H2B header (a cheap well performing header is like a Camp 1320 H2B $375-400 shipped)

All together it will cost about what a GSR swap costs but youll make loads more hp and torque and mod for mod youll make even more....

With traction most hatches would run low 13's to high 12's with just this swap...with a few more mods it should take it to low 12's...and since its not "built" you could easily take the bolt-ons off and part it out should you finish a G23 motor or use those pieces on that motor.....RBC mani etc...QSD makes an adapter for the H22 intake bolt patter...plus a ported RBC ($200 + 500 port job) will support 330+whp so you can run a cheap mani now and then when you are ready have it ported for more power when you can flow it

[SergEK]

Just wanted to add that you will need a B series tranny for the swap and while you MAY find a good deal on a "nice" GSR tranny the chances are it has grinds, no LSD and needs a rebuild....if such is the case just go to www.gearspeed.com....there is a redirect site to the Honda specific side but you will see a FRESH GSR tranny with CARBON COATED synchros and brand new seals etc...is 1195 + 300 core (try finding a broken GSR tranny for even 300...I cant) 1495 for like new trans with sweet synchros...add a nice LSD for just 700 and you have a quality setup for $2195 that will put a smile on your face

You can even have them drop a Final Drive in before they send it to you....just depends on your budget...open diff is fine if your on a budget but if you can spare the extra $700 for the LSD its worth it...its a Quaife type diff (not obx) and is way stronger than the stock diffs

I dont feel like buying used garbage and going through the hassle of reinstalling transmissions and axles and driving around with grinding synchros....bugs me

[SergEK]

Originally Posted by jdmfresh

let me know how you get on with this project!
theres an F20B in the yard right now belonging to someone else and i contemplated putting it in my old EG but lack on info pushed me away.
are there even mounts available for this swap?

QSD HB2 kit...B series mounts, axles, etc....F/H series motors

The EVO kit from Bisimotor works too but motor placement is too low and many folks have had oil pan/speed bump accidents

If its a "track only" car you may get away with it but with my local roads I am all over the QSD kit...$750 U.S.

Search QSD H2B kit on google

[alejo98cx]

wow you just answered alot of questions and brought up some more. How do I know if that engine is manual? does it matter? I thought just the tranny had to be standard? How could I use B series motor/tranny on the F series engine? I was going to try looking for a F or H series tranny...

P.s I am on a budget and 200 Whp is more than enough for me lol, this car is going to be like 99% daily driven, I am almost happy enough with my Y7 but those long gears are busting my balls. I am still trying to decide all motor (so sick wicked nasty I just love all motor beasts) or a big ass turbo (I want lag so it doesnt affect daily driving to much and I just get the power when I step on it).

Turbo = cheaper and probably more power

this engine = Jizz in my pants everytime I hear the exhaust note at WOT

This engine would be sick though

[SergEK]

Originally Posted by alejo98cx

wow you just answered alot of questions and brought up some more. How do I know if that engine is manual? does it matter? I thought just the tranny had to be standard? How could I use B series motor/tranny on the F series engine? I was going to try looking for a F or H series tranny...

P.s I am on a budget and 200 Whp is more than enough for me lol, this car is going to be like 99% daily driven, I am almost happy enough with my Y7 but those long gears are busting my balls. I am still trying to decide all motor (so sick wicked nasty I just love all motor beasts) or a big ass turbo (I want lag so it doesnt affect daily driving to much and I just get the power when I step on it).

Turbo = cheaper and probably more power

this engine = Jizz in my pants everytime I hear the exhaust note at WOT

This engine would be sick though

No prob...I have had a few motor setups and have researched quite a few over the years

If you are on a budget and daily driven...stick to all motor

1. Reliability....not just the motor holding together but the little things turbo guys forget to mention to people "thinking" about a boosted setup
2. Set and forget....with an all motor setup there is less to worry about and hassle with...for a busy person looking to just jump in and drive the car this is much better...IMO anyway

Now can a SOHC turbo make crazy power...all day long...will it be easy...sort of...will it last...if done right...but youll run into tranny issues...torque steer and eventually want more power and probably build a B motor...nature of the beast

So...if all you need is 200whp NA...this little gem is the inexpensive NA option...

A proper turbo setup is probably 2500-3000 if done right...you can mickey mouse one for less but I wouldnt chance it on a daily

This setup will obviously cost a little more but the parts can be used on a variety of all motor or turbo builds...so if you change your mind your not having to rebuy other components

As far as the F/H motor to B series trans....QSD H2B kit...comes with all the hardware you need to make the fitment and mount it to your frame rails properly....youll use standard B series mounts plus those in the kit itself

This H2B option is easily 5 tenths quicker than an F/H tranny equipped setup....the aggressive B series gearing woffle stomps the alternative....5 tenths on the drag strip is HUGE...Ive seen little CX EGs bust 13.60's on stock H22 setups with crappy H series trans and that same car would have easily gone 13.1-13.0 with this H2B kit

If you love sound...the NA cars always turn heads lol...even if they are in the end slower than the turbo cars...

The thing with an NA car is everything happens RIGHT NOW....throttle response is alsmost INSTANT and is easier to manipulate while driving vs lag-rush type turbo setups that fall flat without WOT space

Canyons, auto-x....anywhere you get on and off the throttle alot...NA is usaully the better option....

There are simple SOHC builds that can run high 12's on stock block....so it all depends on what you are looking for

I hate torque steer and replacing transmissions so the SOHC thing didnt fit...not that they are expensive but its the hassle involved...especially without my own garage/tools available...

Another plus....with the torque of the 2.0L setup daily driving will be alot more fun without even using VTEC....youll probaby have about 30% more torque available from idle on and even more once VTEC hits....

[Arthas]

Youre in for a good one.

[SergEK]

Here are some links for more info

Full QSD H2B Ek write-up (56k No way in hell, over 65 pics.) Enjoy. - Honda-Tech

jr_deleon's F20b build (2141cc 12.2:1 compression 1.69 r/s ratio) - Honda-Tech

Keep in mind that the F20B really hasnt been leaned on very hard so alot of the power has yet to be unlocked through testing

The H22/F20B motors are seeing daily progress from all the civic/integra drag racers who want more torque but dont want to spend 8-10K on a K swap....you are going to see some pretty trick stuff being tested this year and as more development on the K happens alot of those parts will be adapted to fit the H22 head....namely manifolds

Jr deleon is actually doing ALOT of testing for the community to help everyone figure out which combos are gonna produce the best gains ....from that we can gather which parts are most cost effective for various power levels

This is still fairly new territory considering these motors have been out of production for some time now....but better late than never right? lol

B series trans > K series trans

[alejo98cx]

Wow, you just sold me, hopefully this guy has the engine when I have the money lol

$2500-3000 for a tubro build? I was thinking like 1000-1500 spending money where it counts good turbo timer and tune, junk yard turbo and maybe intercooler, I could make my own chrage/down pipes (maybe not actually cus I can only weld steel and that = heavy) or pay a friend who welds aluminum little amounts of cash.

Also I just realised something, when swapping engines I had never really thought about it but what do you do about the Ecu? I always just thought drop in the new Ecu but will it know how to run my cars accesories? (lol I have no power steering AC locks or windows so that means air, stereo, guages)

And when you say this is an inexpensive NA option what are we talking about, the way I see it right now I am looking at:

Engine: $1000
Tranny: $1000?
Ecu: $200?
All the shit needed to mount it and make it run and probably have to give it a tune: $1000?

So $3200?

[SergEK]

2500-3000 for a turbo setup includes NEW components...no junk yard stuff...you can always cheap out but it will cost you more to fix mickey mouse setups in the end...call it paying for insurance

As far as the inexpensive NA setup...consider this...most kids pay between 2500-3000 for a B16 swap....get 130-145whp on avg and run maybe mid to low 14's

For about the same money maybe even slightly more...you will run low 13's to high 12's with traction....

A K series may be slightly faster...not by much and your looking at 4500-5K easy if you skimp here and there...most kids who have it done pay more than that easily...back in 03 when I was on the fence for a K swap it was 10-12K...ouch

So when you step back and realize you can have a 200+whp setup for so little cash its quite a surprise...but realize again the H2B adapter has not been around that long and B series swaps are still slightly "easier" because of the knowledge out there

Youll need everything a B series swap needs so your right about the axles, linkage, mounts etc...the big piece of the puzzle is the QSD kit...$750 shipped or so is about right...depending on the header used you may need a single wide radiator (stock in most civics) I usaully ditch A/C in my swaps but I dunno how you will do it...A/C can work if you so choose but you have to get a few things to make it work

As far as the ECU goes...I would run a chip'd ECU with software like ecTune and buy a real time ROM burner so you can dyno tune on the fly...saves time and money in the long run...lots of time and money if your serious...all together the ecu, software and chip burner should cost you maybe 450-500 or so NEW...you may find a few deals and get it cheaper but just giving you an idea....there is "free" software out there but they have a few bugs...for $150 ecTune is basically bug free and totally worth it.

As far as the motor and its setup goes -- power goals decide what parts youll want.

The hardest part is deciding on what pieces to use since they require sizable $$$ decisions....the RRC manifold looks great and youll need a QSD gasket adapter to fit it...then youll need to modify it to work with the old school IACV etc.. on the F20B setup...not hard but just another hurdle

NA power production is a team sport and you have to have the right combination of parts working together...thus testing of these various combinations becomes a full time job...X+Y+zz = L...well what if we do X+Y+zx? Sometimes it seems like the smallest of details but they all add up in the end....maintaining velocity while increasing the overall volume of the air....

So NA power isnt really inexpensive for those on the forefront because so many combinations have to be tested, tuned, changed, tuned, changed again, tuned....dyno time isnt cheap and time is something you can never get back....but most NA guys do it for the love, the science of it all and in the end the community overall benefits because instead of having to try out 30 combinations of intakes/manifolds/cams/fuel pressures etc...youll have a very good idea of the best combo for your goals and only have to purchase those parts that you need without overspending on parts you dont need.

So I am thankful the H2B community is so gun-ho about sharing info, tips and outcomes. It has made the swap seem like common sense when years ago the H motors were seen as a waste....if it werent for the prelude/accord community swapping these things in the stock/prices would have been super cheap/extinct ....

I paid quite a bit for my B18C5 swap in 02' .....it was a US motor, smog legal and one of I think maybe 550-700 motors in the united states...from 01...in Cali it went for a premium and I paid it...but the motor ran strong, helped me win a bracket racing championship and put a smile on my face everytime VTEC cracked with my open header That motor only made 159whp in the trim I had it in for most of the season....after sometuning and a slight header upgrade DC421 to DC JDM I made 175whp/132ftlbs...even still...if my EK went 13.60's-13.70's on 159/125 8200rpm....how fast would it go with a simple F20B with 205-210whp and 145-150ftlbs@8200?

With some serious bolt-ons you can probably eek out 225-230whp....NA...completly reversable...just insane...12 sec daily NA EK on pump gas with a factory 2.0L? Daily driven low 11 sec/high 10 sec hatch on pump with a built motor?

Its really a good time for the NA guys...before you HAD to go turbo to run those times without a completely gutted CRX...now youll see more REAL STREET cars run hard with NA setups...

I just want to see more REAL STREET hatchs run 11's on pump....it scares the crap out of domestic guys every time they see a full interior, full glass Honda without a turbo roll up...do a burnout and run 11's without a bottle or a blower...no power adders...just 2.0-2.4L of 4cyl goodness...

The intake mani is a source of great debate right now for both ease of wiring/plumbing and power...IMO I want an RRC manifold (199-300) large plenum with short fat runners for top end power....plus no stupid IABs to worry about...