Need help. What kind of car is this.

[ALlTroTTle]

yes muscle cars are very nice, but IMO i think chevy and ford ruined it when they put v6's in camaros, and mustangs.

[dumpt gsr]

Anything after 87 is a joke if you put muscle car to it. I say 87 cause that's the last year of the grand national. All it was is a turbo v6 that made 200whp.

[SergEK]

Originally Posted by tryin_to_be_jdm

i love muscle cars

Camaros and Mustangs are PONY cars

Muscle cars by defenition were much larger cars with very very large block motors

Mustang 289 (Pony car) vs say a Challenger with a huge 400+cubic inch motor (Muscle Car)

I wish they would have kept the Pony car theory....small light and nimble

Instead they turned Pony cars into Muscle cars and killed the spirit of what Pony cars were

That and look inside a 65 289 Mustang and notice how much smaller the drivers area is....Americans got fat and so did their cars

[SergEK]

Originally Posted by ALlTroTTle

yes muscle cars are very nice, but IMO i think chevy and ford ruined it when they put v6's in camaros, and mustangs.

They were available in 6cyl trim since the very first cars rolled off the assembly line....

There are more straight 6 and V6 Pony cars then any of the V8 trims combined....

The overwhelming majority of Pony cars were 6 cyls because they are supposed to be the light fun entry level car....as they bloated in size/weight they stopped being as fun and tossable as the originals but not really the fault of the motor

[SergEK]

Originally Posted by dumpt gsr

Anything after 87 is a joke if you put muscle car to it. I say 87 cause that's the last year of the grand national. All it was is a turbo v6 that made 200whp.

A grand national isnt a Muscle car

A Muscle car again is a large car with a very large V8 motor

The grand national has a small 6cyl motor with forced induction....basically the american version of a Supra

Oh and the big fat muscle cars of today are faster than any of the older muscle cars while being safer and handling much better....they weigh a little more somehow too...lol ...

Todays V8s are much more sophisticated and produce much more power with less fuel....which has kept them alive....

[SergEK]

Originally Posted by Deuce1

Guys....these are the kind of cars that started it all. From drag to Trans AM road races. My first cars were all Detroit Muscle. Even though a Honda is a complete different platform you should learn all you can about these cars. I would say working on a 5.0 Foxbody Mustang is the perfect learning platform. Because of all the knowledge I have on dinosaurs, I can work on Hondas more efficiently. Study up!!

Hardly

What started it all were guys in the mid to late 1930s who were broke and took cars that were basically junk and started modifying them

They took Ford flathead 4cyls and started making them lighter in junkyard 20's bodies they could buy on the cheap

The originators of drag racers were 4cyl racers on a mission to push their cars to the limit on a tight budget

WW2 happened and they all went off to war....they came back with money in their pocket and went back to wrenching....once they found the limits of their smaller flathead 4cyl motors they began using the modern V8s for their size/power advantages (now in the junk yards)

So if you claim that somehow 30 years after guys started drag racing these 60's and 70's era cars "started it all" youd be dead wrong

it started with young guys racing 4cyl motors with junk yard chassis lightened up and customized

Thats the ORIGINAL drag racing scene and the "muscle" cars came much much later

HOT ROD magazine and the NHRA were started by these young guys who golt older and more mature...more organized

Frank Choi in 1991 did the same thing for Japanese racers in America...since all the "American" racers had forgotten about their 4cyl roots drag racing a japanese 4cyl was basically impossible

Battle of the Imports began and still goes on today --- only now the 4cyls run 9's in street trim when in 1991 most of them ran 15's and 16's

I would say starting off with a 4cyl is more connected with the actual formation of the sport of drag racing than anything else

A 4cyl motor, a junk yard chassis and a tight budget....your avg Honda enthusisast with a CRX and a swap....just like 1935 all over again

Know your roots

[EK9Pedro]

It's a 1968 or 1969 pontiac firebird

[ALlTroTTle]

Originally Posted by SergEK

They were available in 6cyl trim since the very first cars rolled off the assembly line....

There are more straight 6 and V6 Pony cars then any of the V8 trims combined....

The overwhelming majority of Pony cars were 6 cyls because they are supposed to be the light fun entry level car....as they bloated in size/weight they stopped being as fun and tossable as the originals but not really the fault of the motor

I understand all that, my dad used to have a Mercury comet with a inline V6( forgot what size).
he had the basics on it, and would take v8's all day. It only did around 100 but it would get there quick, and what i was saying about v6's in the mustang,camaro's etc.....

they are supposed to be the performance model for ford and GM. Even tho they put v6's in for gas mileage and such, i would of just stuck to v8's.

Like now adays, this guys have camaro's with v6's and they think that they are unstoppable. Ive always been a ford fan, they had the first flat head v8. and at that time chevy's were more into style, while ford was into performace.

i know it is easier to build a chevy then a ford but.......
were i live just about everybody has a chevy and it just gets annoying lol

[SergEK]

Originally Posted by ALlTroTTle

I understand all that, my dad used to have a Mercury comet with a inline V6( forgot what size).
he had the basics on it, and would take v8's all day. It only did around 100 but it would get there quick, and what i was saying about v6's in the mustang,camaro's etc.....

they are supposed to be the performance model for ford and GM. Even tho they put v6's in for gas mileage and such, i would of just stuck to v8's.

Like now adays, this guys have camaro's with v6's and they think that they are unstoppable. Ive always been a ford fan, they had the first flat head v8. and at that time chevy's were more into style, while ford was into performace.

i know it is easier to build a chevy then a ford but.......
were i live just about everybody has a chevy and it just gets annoying lol

Pony cars were always and still are ENTRY LEVEL cars....the V8 versions were the Hi-Po versions

Today they are so bloated its sad to put them side by side with the originals....but as far as the "performace" for Ford and GM.....the vette will always be the American Halo.....Ford tried briefly to make a Halo "performance" car but just priced themselves out of the market.

The Mustang is a catch all platform for them....in entry level trim its an economical 6cyl...in hi-pop trim its a supercharged V8...what doesnt really change is how heavy it is and how they make so many compromises in handling.

The new camaro rocks the new mustang....Ford always puts in smaller motors and this time they even gave up handling in which the new camaro has an independant rear sus....and 300hp stock V6

Most "performance" cars are in the 250-350hp range....the super hi-po stuff is 400-600hp.....for a entry level car to have 300hp....thats not too bad at all hell my Z only has 300 lol (well a little more) but do you consider a 350z a performance car?

I bet you right now an 09 Camaro V6 would probably keep pace with the majority of all the V8 Mustangs ever made stock for stock....if you consider a V8 mustang a "performance" car than you have to consider the V6 09 camaro to be one....it may not be a 13 sec V8 LS1 but its no slouch either

[ALlTroTTle]

Originally Posted by SergEK

Pony cars were always and still are ENTRY LEVEL cars....the V8 versions were the Hi-Po versions

Today they are so bloated its sad to put them side by side with the originals....but as far as the "performace" for Ford and GM.....the vette will always be the American Halo.....Ford tried briefly to make a Halo "performance" car but just priced themselves out of the market.

The Mustang is a catch all platform for them....in entry level trim its an economical 6cyl...in hi-pop trim its a supercharged V8...what doesnt really change is how heavy it is and how they make so many compromises in handling.

The new camaro rocks the new mustang....Ford always puts in smaller motors and this time they even gave up handling in which the new camaro has an independant rear sus....and 300hp stock V6

Most "performance" cars are in the 250-350hp range....the super hi-po stuff is 400-600hp.....for a entry level car to have 300hp....thats not too bad at all hell my Z only has 300 lol (well a little more) but do you consider a 350z a performance car?

I bet you right now an 09 Camaro V6 would probably keep pace with the majority of all the V8 Mustangs ever made stock for stock....if you consider a V8 mustang a "performance" car than you have to consider the V6 09 camaro to be one....it may not be a 13 sec V8 LS1 but its no slouch either

There is mustangs with v8's back in the day though would eat the new camaro. maybe not all of them... but no way it would keep up with the 69' mustang that came stock with a 427.

Especially NOT the new mustang from rousch called the super snake.

[MickCollinsb16b]

yes '67 or 68' FIREBIRD. its what is called an F-BODY car and is identical to the CAMARO. this is an example of the 1st generation. great car if you put frame connectors connecting the front sub frame to the rear portion.

[MickCollinsb16b]

Originally Posted by ALlTroTTle

There is mustangs with v8's back in the day though would eat the new camaro. maybe not all of them... but no way it would keep up with the 69' mustang that came stock with a 427.

Especially NOT the new mustang from rousch called the super snake.

they did not come stock with 427ci, you had to place a C.O.P.O (central office production order) with a dealership to G.M. unless you happened to be on DON YENKO dealership. started in the 50's he modified all CHEVY's with most notably the legendary YENKO 427 CAMARO. starting as a SS L78 396CI CAMARO , he swapped it with the VETTE's L72 427 and the MUNCIE M-23 4SPD. hauled ass.

[RepeteDB]

I love muscle cars, Its not that I hate imports, its just that muscle looks beautiful and sometimes i feel like imports look too tacky especially with body kits and what not.

Nothing better than a torquey steel bodied muscle car

[tryin_to_be_jdm]

I believe he was talking about the boss 427 mustang, not the Yenko cars. I'm surprised no one had mentioned the new challenger yet. That car shouldn't even share the same name as the original.

[SoSideways]

Originally Posted by SergEK

Pony cars were always and still are ENTRY LEVEL cars....the V8 versions were the Hi-Po versions

Today they are so bloated its sad to put them side by side with the originals....but as far as the "performace" for Ford and GM.....the vette will always be the American Halo.....Ford tried briefly to make a Halo "performance" car but just priced themselves out of the market.

The Mustang is a catch all platform for them....in entry level trim its an economical 6cyl...in hi-pop trim its a supercharged V8...what doesnt really change is how heavy it is and how they make so many compromises in handling.

The new camaro rocks the new mustang....Ford always puts in smaller motors and this time they even gave up handling in which the new camaro has an independant rear sus....and 300hp stock V6

Most "performance" cars are in the 250-350hp range....the super hi-po stuff is 400-600hp.....for a entry level car to have 300hp....thats not too bad at all hell my Z only has 300 lol (well a little more) but do you consider a 350z a performance car?

I bet you right now an 09 Camaro V6 would probably keep pace with the majority of all the V8 Mustangs ever made stock for stock....if you consider a V8 mustang a "performance" car than you have to consider the V6 09 camaro to be one....it may not be a 13 sec V8 LS1 but its no slouch either

Pretty sure the tests showed that the new 2010 Mustangs out handled the new Challenger and new Camaro, and that was done by Road And Track and Car And Driver.

I hadn't read those articles yet, but someone did and told me, so I'm just relaying that info.

Just because a chassis comes with independent rear suspension doesn't mean it will out handle everything in its path.

And 13 second LS1s? Most of them can run 12s mostly stock on a 4th gen F-Body, as long as the car has the tires to launch them properly. Throw on an air filter lid along with the tires and you're guaranteed to run 12s with a good launch.

And I'll take a 2010 Mustang over all the other offerings from Chrysler or GM, because the Mustang doesn't look like the Titanic on wheels, and actually performs well straight out of the box too.